Published in TerraViva, at the World Social Conference in Mumbai
Web Link: http://www.ipsnews.net/focus/tv_mumbai/viewstory.asp?idn=217
18 January 2004
Do you think the traditional left - Labour, Social Democrats, former Communists, Greens - has the energy to lead the movement for change?
I think the future belongs to their values, but they lack a positive vision which is necessary to inspire people so that they can move forward. It isn’t enough to know what you are against.
The no-global movement mobilizes millions of people and yet it does not have a clear political expression. What is the gap between the progressive political establishment and this movement?
Radical movements always have critiques of the existing order. But if they lack a positive project they have little influence.
This is, I think, the problem of the anti-globalisers.
Capitalism is for ever? What happened to the socialist idea?
There have always been markets – as Mikhail) Gorbachev said – we have been taking vegetables to market since time began. Marx understood the potential of the industrial revolution and its new technologies to lift up the life of the people.
As suggested, we needed better political management to ensure the potential was fairly shared.
My view is that the new technologies, the knowledge and capital that is available means that extreme poverty can be removed from the human condition. The problem we have is that there is not enough clarity and optimism amongst the protesters to achieve what is possible.
The dangers is that the neo-conservatives become hegemonic and the world becomes more bitter, divided and unstable.
Some say ‘thematic struggles’ such as those against racism, child work, gender discrimination, GMs or even environmental degradation are actually harmless.
We should oppose all injustice and oppression – as humans and through any decent political movement. On GMs (genetically- modified foods). I think we should study and regulate and use for the benefit of humanity.
You have been in charge of Britain’s development aid programmes. Can you describe a success story?
In my time, the UK moved to support countries to end conflict and build competent, modern states that could grow their economies, crush corruption, create education and health care systems that provide for all.
No poor country can eliminate poverty overnight, but I am proud of our programmes in Rwanda, Mozambique, Uganda and latterly Ethiopia. In Latin America, DfID was small, but we were arguing throughout the system that Latin America’s problem was inequality not lack of resources and that the inequality racialised. We therefore worked on reform in Government systems to create justice and opportunity not aid for a few projects.
In Sierra Leone, we supported the UN to end a vicious civil war and demobilise fighters and resettle them. We are also engaged for the long term in helping build the institutions of a non-corrupt state – difficult in a country rich in diamonds!
The Iraq war is touchy issue for you, you quit office because of it. We are seemingly entering a state of permanent war Why is the world in this situation?
The Iraq war is not ‘touchy’ for me. It was profoundly wrong and the continuing chaos and loss of life in Iraq is the result. Everyone who is serious knows that the terrible attack on 9/11 which killed 3,000 innocent people had no connection with Iraq. The neo-conservatives used to go for a regime change in Iraq. They told lies to the people – as did (Prime Minister Tony) Blair in the UK – to get them support war. Saddam Hussein was an evil dictator and UN sanctions were causing great suffering in Iraq, but there were serious WMD (weapons of mass destruction) there. Israel has very considerable WMD capacity. The right approach was to push forward on a settlement for Israel/ Palestine and an agreement for all WMD out of the region. This would lead to the spread of democracy and development the Middle East. The neo-cons won’t this because they support extremist Israelis.
The result of the (George) Bush/Blair policy in Iraq is that Al Qaeda has more recruits and the world is more unsafe and bitterly divided.
