Simon Petch

Question: How difficult to understand is current legislation governing the employment of children?

Simon Petch: It's very difficult, because the 1933 act has been affected by at least 24 pieces of domestic regulation, and EU directives, and so you're not going to find it all together in one place.

I can give you the name of somebody who I think understands it, I'm not sure if it goes to more than one!

Question: How realistic is your timetable for implementation of your recommendations, given the packed parliamentary session, with particular focus on children's social services?

Simon Petch: Well, we are suggesting that ministers proceed by way of a regulatory reform order.

Our understanding is that this will be something that the departmental lawyers will get underway in the middle of the year, and probably finish in the second half of the year. We're also recommending consultations on how they're working, and we believe that with all the bits and pieces, were ministers to accept the report, we should be talking about probably the beginning of the next school year - 2005, or the end of 2005.

We think that's probably realistic to get this sorted, and that would include giving time for the important job, which is to actually publicise and get understood what the law is.

Question: Surely over-regulation will lead to children's employment being pushed into the black market?

Simon Petch: Well, I think when so few people know what the laws are, it's very difficult to say that it is an over-regulated circumstance.

The regulation works fine if you don't over-regulate it.

Fewer than 10 per cent of children have the work permit that the local authority by-laws require them to have.

Question: Is there perhaps too much talk of red tape? Shouldn't the public be told that some regulations are actually in their interest?

Simon Petch: Yes. First of all, as long as you're clear what they are, why they're in their interest and you're prepared to tell them that.

Our principles as a task force, which have been adopted for several years now - proportionality, accountability, consistency, transparency and targeted - is something we would want to apply to all regulation.

And what those making it apply, what they do, you get a much better set in terms of doing this. In this particular instance, we think one of the major problems is that because it’s the children who are required to have the permit, and employers are currently required to apply for a permit for each child for each job, it discourages them from doing so.

And what we’re proposing is a system whereby each employer registers with a local authority as an employer of children and registers the jobs he would wish them to do.

There is then a record with the local authority. But as for the rest of the procedure – parental consent, the risk analysis, the records of employment – would be held by the employer in the ordinary way, and that in essence would add nothing to the burden he would have to do as part of it.

So we are reducing the overall regulatory burden, trying to produce a system that would work.

And one way ideally, when you rang up a local authority and asked to speak to whoever was responsible for children’s employment, they would know, whereas if you do it at the moment, they very often don’t.

Question: How encouraged are you by the weekend reports that the government is considering imposing a new £3 an hour minimum wage for 16-18 year olds?

Simon Petch: We deliberately avoided looking at the issue of a minimum wage in this area. No one was suggesting it.

But I think that when we’re talking about children working, you’re talking about this as something that is a source of pocket money, also assistance to them in the process of growing up, before they enter, or are in a position to enter, the labour market full time.

So that’s not an issue that was looked at.

Question: Gordon Brown has pledged to tackle red tape from the European Union – how much is that a problem compared to that generated within the UK?

Simon Petch: Most of it is generated within the UK.

There is a specific problem caused by the different limits on working hours in the EU and in domestic legislation, and we aren’t sure whether those are sensible separations and we’re again recommending that the ministers consult on this.