Hey guys, what's the Big Idea?

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Through the press releases and the policy initiatives, the accusations of "out of touch governments" and oppositions who "left this mess behind", British political leaders are in desperate need of an 'ism' to place after their name.

That was the premise of the latest round of Steve Richards' excellent Rock 'n' Roll politics event, as the Independent's chief political commentator argued that both David Cameron and Ed Miliband were tentatively looking for – and in need of – a big, new, and clear political idea to seize the imagination of the electorate. However, Richards’ guests, men whose own ideas have at times seized the imagination of either Cameron or Miliband, both argued that the prime minister and the Labour leader have some way to go.

Brought together on the stage was the influential – and controversial – Labour thinker Lord Maurice Glasman, leader of the ‘Blue Labour’ movement, and Philip Blond, the academic behind the strand of thinking known as Red Toryism. While the pair resisted engaging in a public battle of ideas, as Richards may have wished, or agreeing that that the brand of Conservative socialism promoted by Blue Labour and the renewal of civic institutions urged by Red Toryism were one and the same, both identified a lack of boldness in their occasional political patrons.

"When Blue Labour started, the tagline I wanted was 'Blue Labour – celebrating failure.' People aren’t prepared to fail and to learn from that failure. I say to Ed: “Be prepared to fail". And he looks at me and says: "'That’s alright for you to say'", Glasman began, before admitting that “the frustration lies far more on his [Miliband's] side" when asked how satisfied he was with Miliband’s leadership. "I have really fucked up, a lot, and he has really stood by me – and I am moved by that. ‘Are you alright?' he asks me. ‘I’m fine – it's very generous of you to ask. Are you alright?' 'Don’t ask', he says.'"

Glasman’s mea culpa follows the criticism which he has received for arguing that a 'line' needed to be drawn on immigration, with his quotes thrown back at Miliband by the prime minister in a recent Commons exchange. However, Glasman defended his willingness to discuss policy areas seen as traditionally Conservative territory: “I can hold genuine conversations with normal people without telling them they’re wrong."

Glasman also urged Labour thinkers to take on a less "defensive position” in their response to Cameron’s Big Society agenda – the nearest the Tory leader has come to finding that 'ism' of his own – because "it is absolutely necessary to reclaim the Labour tradition from the Tories”.

The Big Society seemed to share much with what Philip Blond has argued. In 2009, Blond's 'Red Tory' concept was hailed by David Cameron as "an exciting initiative which has arrived at a vital time", but last night Blond was dismissive of Cameron’s reluctance to think radically about the government’s economic policies "I think David Cameron has to make a choice and I think he hasn’t yet made that choice” Blond argued.

"Conservatives have reinvented themselves socially – actually a lot of what Iain Duncan Smith has done is wholly laudable – but I still feel that the prime minister hasn’t moved 1980s economic thinking into the 21st century. He’s still working with that neo-liberal economic model."

Referring to David Cameron as the "greatest intuitive politician of the moment", Blond said: "I would like to see him take those intuitions and convert them into radical social and economic policies. In my view it [present economic thinking] won't take the poorer people along, and won't create a growth agenda for the 21st century". He then added that the status quo would let "the people who have benefited for far too long still benefit", a line which had Glasman nodding along in agreement.

And the man once labelled as a policy 'guru' of Cameron’s also had a stark warning for the leadership: "The Conservatives risk cutting off the bottom, squeezing the middle, and making excuses for the top.” Comments like that might see the one-time guru's pass in the big tent hastily revoked.

Glasman was more cautious in his language, but he appeared to be unimpressed with the strand of economic thinking emerging from the Labour leadership. "I’ll get myself in trouble for saying this, but Labour has to be much more fiscally conservative" the Labour peer argued. "Debt just gives power to bankers."

However, he ended on a marginally more positive note than his Red Tory counterpart, as he urged Miliband to "challenge Labour orthodoxies, be radical and connect with people in this way – that’s the year ahead and that’s what up for grabs".

But whether that year will see a major new political way of thinking at its core is uncertain. Both Glasman and Blond are engaging personalities, but I got the sense that the converted had been preached to and the unconvinced went away with more questions than answers – though inspiring questions is no bad thing in politics.

Which is why, for now, Blue Labour and Red Toryism are the only strands of political thinking which have carved a small niche for fresh ideas in the crowded and frenetic political landscape. For that reason, politicians will keep paying close attention to Maurice Glasman and Philp Blond as they continue searching for that elusive ism.

Sam Macrory is political editor of the House Magazine