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Drugs Bill

Angela Watkinson (Upminster) (Con): The clause relates to the supply of a controlled substance by a person who has attained the age of 18. However, it does not cover the supply of such a substance by someone who has not attained that age. We know that when pupils in schools have been tempted into drug use, it is common for them to sell on their surplus to their friends, thereby creating more and more people with a drug habit. Will the Minister tell us how the provision relates to people under the age of 18?

Caroline Flint: With the indulgence of the House, I will deal with that point, but I do not want to lose sight of the Opposition amendments. As the hon. Lady is aware, we had a discussion in Committee on that issue. We have to decide whether we accept that the law contains procedures that recognise how we might deal with under-18s in terms of sentencing, and how they are dealt with by different agencies, compared with over-18s.

There are enough examples of how we try to deal with young offenders, but that does not mean that we excuse for one moment the activity of someone under 18 who might be supplying drugs. That will be an offence for which—if they are caught and there is evidence—they can be charged. We had a discussion on this in Committee, and I do not think that applying to someone who is himself identified in law as a vulnerable person the aggravating factor of supplying to a vulnerable person is the right approach to take.

Do not forget that that is an aggravating factor linked to a charge for an offence. In dealing with under-18s, it is important that we charge them for the offence, but we should also consider what their involvement is and how they got involved. We should consider them as we do in other areas of law—in a way that understands that their actions are wrong, but at the same time they are young people, and perhaps even children. We need to deal with that appropriately. We have had that discussion, and although we may disagree, I think this is the right approach. So we are talking here about people over the age of 18 in respect of whom we believe such issues should be taken into account when they are involved in dealing activity.

A dealing site may be close to a school as the crow flies, but might be separated from it by a railway line that is not bridged for some distance from the school, and may therefore, for practical purposes, not be in its vicinity. Conversely, a dealing site may be some distance from the school using conventional footpaths or roads, but be easily accessible by less conventional means. In my constituency, young people going to school do not necessarily follow the paved route. They cut across fields and parks, and that becomes their normal route to school. If someone wanted to be involved in dealing activity, they might choose such an area for that.

Amendment No. 3, in attempting to define "in the vicinity", illustrates the dangers of doing so. As I have said, distance may not always be the only determining factor. If we were to go for a fixed distance, from what point on the school premises would a mile be measured, and who would have the authority to carry out that measurement? How would passengers on a bus know when they were within 5 miles of a school? Furthermore, the amendment would catch only buses provided by an education authority, but not public transport used by pupils on their way to or from school.

In addition, if there were active dealing on a school bus—we might presume that, apart from the driver, most of the people on it were under 18, and it might be the driver who was dealing—that would be caught by the aggravating factor of dealing to vulnerable people, which means those under 18. We also know that young people use other forms of public transport, such as trains or buses, and children could be exposed to dealing activity from which we need to protect them near a local train station, which is the dropping-off point for those making their way to school, or on buses.

We are talking about situations in which the young person is not directly engaged, but is exposed to the risk. We all want to try to deal with those situations, when young people experience those things around them. We need to consider how to ensure that they are seen as not acceptable and not a normal part of everyday life.

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