Kevin Brennan - minister for the third sector

---

ePolitix.com speaks to Kevin Brennan, minister for the third sector, about the learning and skills issues facing charities.

Question: How do you think the third sector will be affected by the changes to the learning and skills agenda?

Kevin Brennan: The sector, like others, will always be worried about changes and reform but there is no reason why the sector should be negatively affected. We are determined from the point of view of the Office of the Third Sector, working with the various skills bodies, to make sure that they can get on well.

We are supporting a new third sector skills body which we set up with DIUS at the end of last year called Skills Third Sector to try and influence the way the skills sector addresses the needs of third sector organisations. I've been working very closely with the Third Sector National Learning Alliance to feed in any concerns they have to help design the new skills architecture.

Ultimately, it will be a positive thing because setting up this new skills body is something the sector has been requesting for some time with more of an emphasis on third sector skills. There is a real opportunity here and not just the threat people feel when there is an institutional change.

Question: We know that the DCSF has already agreed to place a member of the Third Sector National Learning Alliance on its 16 to 19 Board. What do you think the sector should do to get a similar representative onto the DIUS Board?

Kevin Brennan: I'm confident there will be one. I know through my contacts with DIUS that they are committed to that happening too and that sometime soon in the new financial year we will see a new representative on the DIUS board.

It's very good that DCSF have already done this and I'm confident that we will be able to do the same thing in relation to DIUS in the near future.

Question: You met recently with the new Third Sector Alliance - how can you see them helping with this transition?

Kevin Brennan: The new Third Sector Alliance can be really useful and it was great to meet them recently when I had the chance to talk to them because it brings all the right people together, around the table at the same time with the right expertise from different areas in the third sector.

It was very interesting to hear them exchanging and cross-fertilising ideas. They can be the voice because we have got the right people with the right skills. They can really help us in government to know what the needs and the priorities are around skills and the third sector. We've got a very good partnership with that alliance and they will be invaluable as a voice of the third sector to help us make sure the transition works for the sector.

Question: What should be done to support third sector providers in this transition if we are to avoid any loss of momentum for the sector in providing for those people who are without the skills they need to get a job?

Kevin Brennan: We need to make sure that DCSF and DIUS are working with the Learning Skills Council, Third Sector Advisory Group, the Third Sector National Learning Alliance and others to ensure that the issues that affect the third sector are fed into the design process for the new bodies - the new Skills Funding Agency and the new Young Peoples' Learning Agency.

We need to make sure the sector's views are fed into this and there is a process in place now before the new bodies come into place, which won't be until September 2010.

There have been a number of events with third sector organisations to share ideas and proposals for the future and listening to the ideas and concerns that the sector has which will be reflected on and fed into the design of those new bodies. That's what needs to be done and there is a process under way in government to do that.

Question: Do you see a role in the future for treating the third sector differently from other providers, given what we know about their ability to deliver to certain groups of people?

Kevin Brennan: We can't do any particular favours, like favouring the sector over other types of organisations. What we should be doing and what we try to do from the Office of the Third Sector perspective is to provide support to third sector organisations in how to bid for contracts, in helping to build capacity, and how to form the right sorts of alliances to be able to do that.

Also, we're doing a lot of work to help them to prove the social return on investment the third sector organisations can often bring. It's not a case of saying we will only select from third sector organisations - there should be an element of contestability - but it is about us trying to make sure there is a level playing field and to help build the capacity of the third sector to compete and bid for the types of skills work that the government has on offer.

Question: How do you think the sector should be working in the next 12 to 18 months to make the most of the opportunities from the changes?

Kevin Brennan: It's about the four C's: Communication, Collaboration, Creativity and Clarity.

In terms of communication, there needs to be good communication across the sector and between the funders, planners, and policy makers to make sure that the organisations are aware what the learning and skills needs are and what opportunities and support are available for them.

There needs to be collaboration - which will be increasingly important if sources are scarce as they tend to be during a recession - with cross sector partnerships, consortia, or externally sometimes in terms of partnering with local authorities and local colleges. With creativity we need that entrepreneurial energy that you often see through organisations like social enterprises.

We need that kind of creativity and can-do spirit in order to make sure that third sector organisations make the most of the opportunities that are available to them and create opportunities too. We also need clarity about the kind of contribution they can make.

The distinctive value that enables third sector organisations to play to their strength and protect their independence and distinctive identity but construct a very effective case to the potential funders and partners there might be for them. That is they way forward for third sector organisations over the next period as the new system comes into place.

Question: And what in your view are the biggest threats?

Kevin Brennan: It is obvious what the biggest threat is in all of this and that is the economic situation that we face. The uncertainty about the length and depth of the recession and the potential impact it could have is the big elephant on the doorstep for all of us.

However, there are going to be real opportunities in place and the government has introduced extra support to help the sector in our Real help for Communities: Volunteer Charities and Social Enterprise plan which pledged £42m to help the sector to deliver services to those most in need.

The big challenge, the big threat we are facing is the economic downturn and what we will need to shorten that downturn is to make sure the third sector is helping us to develop the skills the country needs to be able come through stronger when the recession is over.