John Redwood

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European Parliament (Representation) Bill

On Monday April 28th John Redwood MP questioned the government's erosion of the democratic process in deciding the number of representatives in the European Parliament.

Mr. John Redwood (Wokingham): I am glad that there has been some movement, but is not the Minister being a little economical with the truth? This is a climbdown. It was not clear during the original debate that the provision was limited to those areas where treaties had already been the subject of the proper debate and parliamentary scrutiny that is required for the passage of an Act, and the worry was that it would be back-door legislation without proper scrutiny.

Yvette Cooper: We have always made clear our intention to ensure that we could implement not only decisions made under treaties, but Council decisions

Mr. Redwood: Is not the Bill's great irony the fact that it genuflects to democracy by offering us elected offices to put before the British people but does so in such an undemocratic way that there can be no proper democratic debate or discussion, and that the Community cannot work out a timetable for agreement that leaves us time to undergo a proper democratic process?

Mr. Cash: I agree with my right hon. Friend. The problem emerges in all sorts of other arenas such as the Convention on the Future of Europe and proposals that pre-empt proper democratic decision making by this Parliament, thereby reducing it to rubble. We are expected to accept all that for reasons such as: it will happen anyway; it is good for us. The sort of discussion that we would expect at the right time will be precluded.

6.45 pm

Mr. Redwood: I share the worries of Opposition Members that this is only a partial recantation by Her Majesty's Government. It is a pity that the Minister did not come in a more humble spirit and say that a mistake had been made and that the debate led by my hon. Friend the Member for Stone (Mr. Cash) had made an impact. It would be so much better if Ministers practised what they sometimes preach. I thought that the idea of Parliament was to bring to bear on issues the collective mind of the elected representatives of this country, and where good points were made, from wherever they might come, that Ministers should listen to them and take them on board. That was how I tried to conduct myself as a Minister. There were times when I accepted amendments in Committee and was happy to do so because I did not think that Ministers and the civil service had a monopoly on wisdom when it came to drafting such measures. In this case, it was a material point that went to the heart of democracy: the right of this House to have a prime discussion and primary legislation on matters that Ministers certainly think are of major importance-the question of how many representatives there should be in the European Parliament as it develops, how they should be chosen and the areas that they might represent.

The Bill shows that Ministers have little ability to influence the pace and nature of debate in the EU. Surely Ministers should explain our democratic system to our partners on the continent and explain that, as a matter of courtesy to the House of Commons, they should agree not merely the general outlines, but the actual numbers of MEPs in good time for the House to debate and legislate with primary legislation before the

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elections are called. It is bad manners on the part of the Community not to offer Britain, and for all I know several other countries with similar democratic traditions, the time and space to debate these important matters in the traditional way rather than having to hurry through cobbled-together legislation and then having to change that under protest and under pressure because some of the legislation fell foul of the usual procedures and ways of conducting business.

Ministers say that through this device we can anticipate the number of MEPs that may be required. I do not know whether that comes from the Foreign Office tradition that thinks that the Beano is a stronger source of authority than some of the European documents that it wishes to dismiss when we try to debate them, and whether we have to look in the pages of the Beano to see how many MEPs might be needed and legislate on the back of that, or whether Ministers have in mind something more substantial before bringing before the House the exact number of MEPs that they wish to see.

Mr. Bercow: Does my right hon. Friend agree that there is a danger that the inclusion of the words in the Bill "anticipated change" could themselves act as a self-fulfilling prophecy? That is to say that the very fact of including the words and predicting the scenario could force the pace of events within the Community in a direction that it might otherwise have not have taken.

Mr. Redwood: It could have that impact, or we could end up legislating twice. We might anticipate wrongly and the House would have to deal with an embarrassing correction from Her Majesty's Government.

I urge Ministers, first, to accept tonight that they have given some ground, and rightly so. That would be sensible, accepting their role in democratic debate. Secondly, I would like Ministers to assure the House that, when negotiating such matters in future with our partners in the EU, they will try to obtain more space and time so that we can go through our usual democratic processes and not feel rail-roaded and dealt with rather shabbily, as we do tonight.

For full debate click here